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	<title>Comments on: Tiptoe through the Tilli (and the antitrust ramifications)</title>
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	<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/</link>
	<description>don&#039;t complain. what if this blog wasn&#039;t here at all, hmm?</description>
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		<title>By: melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1375</link>
		<dc:creator>melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1375</guid>
		<description>Jeeze man, I just wanna knit some pretty stuff for my friends or or myself to wear so I can say, &quot;thanks, I made it&quot; when I recieve a compliment.
All this controversy about keeping the integrity of luxury yarn really burns me up.
I guess I thought that the point of a beautiful yarn was to enjoy the feel of it sliding through my fingers as I create a lovely garment (or accessory)!!
When did knitting become so elitist?!?
I&#039;ll happily stick to my &#039;lion brand yarn&#039; and enjoy my craft (and its cute, cozy biproducts) in peace without the snobbery!!!
Long live discount yarn stores!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeeze man, I just wanna knit some pretty stuff for my friends or or myself to wear so I can say, &#8220;thanks, I made it&#8221; when I recieve a compliment.<br />
All this controversy about keeping the integrity of luxury yarn really burns me up.<br />
I guess I thought that the point of a beautiful yarn was to enjoy the feel of it sliding through my fingers as I create a lovely garment (or accessory)!!<br />
When did knitting become so elitist?!?<br />
I&#8217;ll happily stick to my &#8216;lion brand yarn&#8217; and enjoy my craft (and its cute, cozy biproducts) in peace without the snobbery!!!<br />
Long live discount yarn stores!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Ana</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1374</link>
		<dc:creator>Ana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 01:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1374</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s important to get all the information on these yarn companies in one place, so I&#039;ve started a blog so that people can go to one place and see a list of consumer-unfriendly yarn companies.

http://keystoneyarns.blogspot.com/

I&#039;m not interested in falsely accusing people, so I&#039;m asking that if people have written evidence of keystone pricing practices, such as sales agreements stipulating certain prices, that they e-mail them to me so I can post them to the blog.

I&#039;m open to other input on this as well.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s important to get all the information on these yarn companies in one place, so I&#8217;ve started a blog so that people can go to one place and see a list of consumer-unfriendly yarn companies.</p>
<p><a href="http://keystoneyarns.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://keystoneyarns.blogspot.com/</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not interested in falsely accusing people, so I&#8217;m asking that if people have written evidence of keystone pricing practices, such as sales agreements stipulating certain prices, that they e-mail them to me so I can post them to the blog.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m open to other input on this as well.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1373</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 05:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1373</guid>
		<description>The Fiesta yarn&#039;s agreement states that authorised dealers must not sell on eBay or other auction sites, and that yarn is to be priced at keystone prices. (www.fiestayarns.com/xtra/starterkit.pdf)

Susan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Fiesta yarn&#8217;s agreement states that authorised dealers must not sell on eBay or other auction sites, and that yarn is to be priced at keystone prices. (www.fiestayarns.com/xtra/starterkit.pdf)</p>
<p>Susan</p>
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		<title>By: j.</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1372</link>
		<dc:creator>j.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1372</guid>
		<description>Dividing up distribution territory by market or geographically is a different issue -- for example, a company could give exclusive rights for Europe to Distributor A, and exclusive rights for North America to Distributor B, and enter into contracts with each to specify that neither shall sell in the other&#039;s territory (or to customers in the other&#039;s territory).  That&#039;s very common, and not in itself illegal... as to whether this is what Colinette is attempting to do, well, both Cucumberpatch and Jannette&#039;s are still offering on eBay.

There&#039;s logic to carving up by territory: by promising distributors an exclusive market, the distributorship is more attractive and allows the distributor to concentrate on developing the market, leading to what &lt;em&gt;ought&lt;/em&gt; to be the most efficient and/or widespread coverage of that market and maximum availability of the product to the consumer, right?  The connection between the benefit to the consumer (available product) and the creation of an exclusive territory is a lot clearer to me than however the consumer allegedly benefits by fixing a mandatory minimum retail price.  The logic from the &quot;anonymous&quot; comment was that other retailers would drop the product line if undercut... but those other retailers were in the same geographical region, so the threat of lack of availability to the American market doesn&#039;t really have as much force.

There may be some legal way to maintain a certain minimum price, but the one guaranteed legal way to do is to distribute it yourself...

Re Babies: all I&#039;ve found, so far, is a case involving Toys &#039;R&#039; Us entering into some kind of vertical restraining deal with suppliers -- preventing them from supplying discount club chains, or something like that.  Deliberately undercutting a competitor&#039;s price (and taking a loss to do so) in order to hurt the competitor may constitute predatory pricing, which I don&#039;t think was the issue in the TRU case I found.

On another note, as I was googling about I found a 2005 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wsgr.com/wsgr/Display.aspx?SectionName=publications/PDFSearch/clientalert_amd_intel.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;report&lt;/a&gt; on the commencement of an antitrust suit by AMD against Intel.  Intel was alleged to have bullied PC vendors to keep them from using AMD chips.  I&#039;m only linking to it because I wanted to quote this:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
The complaint is vivid and explicit in its detailed recounting of how Intel allegedly treated its partners. For example, Intel allegedly threatened Dell with &quot;retribution&quot; if the company dealt with AMD; demanded that Hewlett-Packard fire a high-ranking executive for negotiating a deal to use AMD&#039;s Athlon64 in its commercial computer line; and &quot;beat [Gateway] into guacamole in retaliation&quot; for dealing with AMD.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Mmm... guacamole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dividing up distribution territory by market or geographically is a different issue &#8212; for example, a company could give exclusive rights for Europe to Distributor A, and exclusive rights for North America to Distributor B, and enter into contracts with each to specify that neither shall sell in the other&#8217;s territory (or to customers in the other&#8217;s territory).  That&#8217;s very common, and not in itself illegal&#8230; as to whether this is what Colinette is attempting to do, well, both Cucumberpatch and Jannette&#8217;s are still offering on eBay.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s logic to carving up by territory: by promising distributors an exclusive market, the distributorship is more attractive and allows the distributor to concentrate on developing the market, leading to what <em>ought</em> to be the most efficient and/or widespread coverage of that market and maximum availability of the product to the consumer, right?  The connection between the benefit to the consumer (available product) and the creation of an exclusive territory is a lot clearer to me than however the consumer allegedly benefits by fixing a mandatory minimum retail price.  The logic from the &#8220;anonymous&#8221; comment was that other retailers would drop the product line if undercut&#8230; but those other retailers were in the same geographical region, so the threat of lack of availability to the American market doesn&#8217;t really have as much force.</p>
<p>There may be some legal way to maintain a certain minimum price, but the one guaranteed legal way to do is to distribute it yourself&#8230;</p>
<p>Re Babies: all I&#8217;ve found, so far, is a case involving Toys &#8216;R&#8217; Us entering into some kind of vertical restraining deal with suppliers &#8212; preventing them from supplying discount club chains, or something like that.  Deliberately undercutting a competitor&#8217;s price (and taking a loss to do so) in order to hurt the competitor may constitute predatory pricing, which I don&#8217;t think was the issue in the TRU case I found.</p>
<p>On another note, as I was googling about I found a 2005 <a href="http://www.wsgr.com/wsgr/Display.aspx?SectionName=publications/PDFSearch/clientalert_amd_intel.htm" rel="nofollow">report</a> on the commencement of an antitrust suit by AMD against Intel.  Intel was alleged to have bullied PC vendors to keep them from using AMD chips.  I&#8217;m only linking to it because I wanted to quote this:</p>
<blockquote><p>
The complaint is vivid and explicit in its detailed recounting of how Intel allegedly treated its partners. For example, Intel allegedly threatened Dell with &#8220;retribution&#8221; if the company dealt with AMD; demanded that Hewlett-Packard fire a high-ranking executive for negotiating a deal to use AMD&#8217;s Athlon64 in its commercial computer line; and &#8220;beat [Gateway] into guacamole in retaliation&#8221; for dealing with AMD.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mmm&#8230; guacamole.</p>
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		<title>By: Margaret</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1371</link>
		<dc:creator>Margaret</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Sep 2006 03:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1371</guid>
		<description>What an interesting conversation! Personally, the Collinette thing has driven me up a wall (and driven me to make friends with a VERY friendly knitty.com girl from England who will send me cheap colinette yarn!! Even with airmail shipping? I save more than half  on the US colinette price. I expect the yarn police to knock on my door anyday now :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an interesting conversation! Personally, the Collinette thing has driven me up a wall (and driven me to make friends with a VERY friendly knitty.com girl from England who will send me cheap colinette yarn!! Even with airmail shipping? I save more than half  on the US colinette price. I expect the yarn police to knock on my door anyday now <img src='http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: yahaira</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1370</link>
		<dc:creator>yahaira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1370</guid>
		<description>as a newish yarn store owner, I can tell you that they still do check and sooo many companies won&#039;t let me order from them because I&#039;m &#039;internet only&#039; right now.  At TNNA I saw many online stores lie about it and say they are &#039;regular retailers&#039; and I was also snubbed by distributors as soon as they saw my &#039;internet tag&#039;, skacel comes to mind.

as for the pricing, well I charge basically what they tell me.  If I get the yarn at a good deal (say at a good exchange rate) I try to pass that on to my customers.  Since I&#039;ve opened I&#039;ve seen stores start undercutting me, while other stores charge double what I do. I&#039;ve even had yarn dyers try to cut me off from certain distributors because we we&#039;re using the same yarn. Wasn&#039;t there some legal case with Babies&#039;rUs or Baby Depot undercutting all their competition so they would go out of business?

To make a long story short, knitting is highly political.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as a newish yarn store owner, I can tell you that they still do check and sooo many companies won&#8217;t let me order from them because I&#8217;m &#8216;internet only&#8217; right now.  At TNNA I saw many online stores lie about it and say they are &#8216;regular retailers&#8217; and I was also snubbed by distributors as soon as they saw my &#8216;internet tag&#8217;, skacel comes to mind.</p>
<p>as for the pricing, well I charge basically what they tell me.  If I get the yarn at a good deal (say at a good exchange rate) I try to pass that on to my customers.  Since I&#8217;ve opened I&#8217;ve seen stores start undercutting me, while other stores charge double what I do. I&#8217;ve even had yarn dyers try to cut me off from certain distributors because we we&#8217;re using the same yarn. Wasn&#8217;t there some legal case with Babies&#8217;rUs or Baby Depot undercutting all their competition so they would go out of business?</p>
<p>To make a long story short, knitting is highly political.</p>
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		<title>By: Ana</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1369</link>
		<dc:creator>Ana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1369</guid>
		<description>Ironically, they don&#039;t seem to care when retailers mark up their prices.  I travel 28 days out of the month for work, so I&#039;ve been able to compare prices on different knitting supplies.  I always try to support LYS, but this time I had to put my foot down.  The LYS in Overland Park had addi turbos for $3 more than they cost at my LYS in Oregon, putting them at an outrageous $16, not including tax.  Only $3 more, you might say... but it really made me mad.

So, I went home an ordered some of the new circulars off Knitpicks.  For $5. I used to feel guilty shopping at knitpicks, but I&#039;m over it.

There are shops that do a good job of ordering yarn creatively, rather than blindly stocking all the name brands.  Yarn Barn in Lawrence gets bulk natural yarns from some supplier (I&#039;m guessing on the internet) and they&#039;re affordable, and absolutely wonderful to work with.  The alpaca I bought was the softest thing in the store-- and probably the cheapest per yard, because it didn&#039;t come with all the marketing BS.

Ok, done with my rant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, they don&#8217;t seem to care when retailers mark up their prices.  I travel 28 days out of the month for work, so I&#8217;ve been able to compare prices on different knitting supplies.  I always try to support LYS, but this time I had to put my foot down.  The LYS in Overland Park had addi turbos for $3 more than they cost at my LYS in Oregon, putting them at an outrageous $16, not including tax.  Only $3 more, you might say&#8230; but it really made me mad.</p>
<p>So, I went home an ordered some of the new circulars off Knitpicks.  For $5. I used to feel guilty shopping at knitpicks, but I&#8217;m over it.</p>
<p>There are shops that do a good job of ordering yarn creatively, rather than blindly stocking all the name brands.  Yarn Barn in Lawrence gets bulk natural yarns from some supplier (I&#8217;m guessing on the internet) and they&#8217;re affordable, and absolutely wonderful to work with.  The alpaca I bought was the softest thing in the store&#8211; and probably the cheapest per yard, because it didn&#8217;t come with all the marketing BS.</p>
<p>Ok, done with my rant.</p>
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		<title>By: Becky</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1368</link>
		<dc:creator>Becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 03:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1368</guid>
		<description>That really gets complex. It&#039;s very interesting and gives me a new perspective of pricing, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That really gets complex. It&#8217;s very interesting and gives me a new perspective of pricing, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz in Chicago</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1367</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz in Chicago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What I&#039;ve heard is that Colinette doesn&#039;t want British shops to offer yarn SPECIFICALLY TO AMERICANS since it undercuts the price that U.S. distributors have to charge, or words to that effect.  I heard it from Jannette&#039;s Rare Yarns on eBay.  Her comment was along the lines of, &quot;Well, I&#039;m not sure what I think about that.&quot;  And that was the last I heard of it.

As for Sarah/Tilli...Sarah respects her customers.  Tilli apparently does not.  It&#039;s an easy choice for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I&#8217;ve heard is that Colinette doesn&#8217;t want British shops to offer yarn SPECIFICALLY TO AMERICANS since it undercuts the price that U.S. distributors have to charge, or words to that effect.  I heard it from Jannette&#8217;s Rare Yarns on eBay.  Her comment was along the lines of, &#8220;Well, I&#8217;m not sure what I think about that.&#8221;  And that was the last I heard of it.</p>
<p>As for Sarah/Tilli&#8230;Sarah respects her customers.  Tilli apparently does not.  It&#8217;s an easy choice for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Elaine</title>
		<link>http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/comment-page-1/#comment-1366</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:16:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.girlfromauntie.com/journal/index.php/2006/tiptoe-through-the-tilli-and-the-antitrust-ramifications/#comment-1366</guid>
		<description>Ashford (spinning wheels, fiber and yarn and weaving equipment) has done this all along. Actually, I&#039;m not positive if it&#039;s Ashford or it&#039;s one and only US distributor. No retailer is permitted to sell below SRP according to the wholesale agreement. This is the reason why some stores make their sales more attractive by offering &#039;freebies&#039; instead of discounting price. BTW, it is also prohibited for a retailer to advertise used Ashford products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashford (spinning wheels, fiber and yarn and weaving equipment) has done this all along. Actually, I&#8217;m not positive if it&#8217;s Ashford or it&#8217;s one and only US distributor. No retailer is permitted to sell below SRP according to the wholesale agreement. This is the reason why some stores make their sales more attractive by offering &#8216;freebies&#8217; instead of discounting price. BTW, it is also prohibited for a retailer to advertise used Ashford products.</p>
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