Comments on: Riddle me this…

By: rs4ily

rs4ily — Fri, 08 May 2009 11:18:12 +0000

Finally some rational discussion on “Free but with strings attached”

If you put it out there as free then let it go. I love the footer that would say ” Feel free to do what ever you want with this pattern, including lineing your bird cage with it”. If this isn’t what you want then don’t call it FREE.

The internet has opened a new window on associated web page advertizing dollars, and free patterns via such web page advertizing can be an income source to the designer and this is another issue.

I’m really tired of the whole issue and have decided to stay away from any of the so called Free patterns. I just feel that there is a hidden agenda that I really don’t want any part of.

By: Jenn

Jenn — Mon, 20 Apr 2009 07:15:32 +0000

For teaching I would deal with free patterns two ways, depending on the type of class:
1.) Students bring in their own copy of the pattern, which makes it so the students see the copyright and the designer’s other work.
or
2.) Teacher asks and receives permission to teach the class and can print off the pattern for the class.

For patterns that are for sale shops make people buy the book or pattern, and if it is not something they usually carry many designers will do a “trunk show” for the pattern.

By: mariannem

mariannem — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:12:23 +0000

@Katherine: I think it’s because free patterns often generate income for their designers based on website ads. So if the shop is printing off the pattern, the customer won’t see the ads. Plus, if you do to download a free pattern, you might well see the designer’s other, for-sale patterns, and decide to buy one of those, but if you’ve been given the pattern by your LYS, the designer misses out on those sales opportunities as well.

By: Katherine

Katherine — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 19:21:05 +0000

Frankly, I don’t understand why the shop can’t print copies of a free pattern for customers at no charge if they want to. Really, what’s the difference? And there are customers who don’t have computers or computer knowledge who are barred from using the pattern unless a friend or the shop does print the pattern for them. Why is this such a bad thing?

By: j.

j. — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:08:39 +0000

@Ann, it sounds like the only difference is one of coordination, and possibly advertising. In one case, it’s coincidence; in the other case, it’s deliberate. Should intent make a difference?

Oh, and I think some designers have started to put together class materials (to support for-sale patterns? don’t know about for-free) for use by shops in teaching classes.

By: Ann

Ann — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:01:02 +0000

What is the difference between a shop that charges for open project knit/help sessions and a session dedicated to a specific pattern? As I understand the open project knit sessions, people bring in their own project and have the LYS resources available to help guide them through the project. So, if 10 people came to the open project knit class with the same pattern, does the shop need permission from the designer?

I would think that it would generally help the designer, in way of free publicity, to have a class built around a pattern. But I may be naive.

By: j.

j. — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:14:17 +0000

@Marnie: I’ve been trying to avoid discussing the legality of it because I don’t want to debate the legality of imposing such a requirement in the absence of a licence agreement (not much of a debate really), and I was just trying to focus on the arguments in favour of this code of ethics.

However, your second paragraph ties into something else I just wrote up…

By: Marnie

Marnie — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:24:13 +0000

@Jenna, I’m clearly and woefully out of my element making any comment either way about legality. I simply cannot. That said, I think there’s merit in considering the community at large and what constitutes the sort of behavior that is most equitable. I think it’s a good policy to touch base with the designer and at least let him or her know that you are so enamored with her pattern or there’s been so much interest at your LYS, that you’d like to offer a class for it.

Also, with my aforementioned lack of any legal training and limited understanding of copyright, I might assume that the limitation to “non-commercial use” of the pattern would prohibit the profiting by way of a class. Though, to your point, if everyone goes out and buys the pattern, then the designer really hasn’t lost anything and it seems like a win all around, so I dunno.

Like I said, for me it is a non-issue as long as everything is on the up-and-up, credit given, pattern name intact, and each student purchases the pattern, so devil’s advocacy mode is officially off.

By: j.

j. — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 19:29:40 +0000

@Marnie, this presupposes that the designer has the right of first refusal when it comes to teaching off her pattern, or that she is somehow entitled to deference from her potential competitors. Again, if the designer chose to publish it beforehand, why does she have this right of first refusal? (this is the part I’m struggling to understand)

An alternative would be for the designer to advertise pictures of the finished item, and market her teaching services to shops–if they have students who want to pay to learn, the designer will teach the class and provide the pattern, all for the teaching fee. That way, the pattern is not generally published to begin with. If the designer chooses outright (free) publication over this alternative, is she still entitled to that right of first refusal?

By: Marnie

Marnie — Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:55:14 +0000

I’ve only been asked if people could teach my free patterns and I’ve always granted permission as long as full attribution, my copyright and URL and a note saying I’ve approved this use, is included on the class hand outs.

I would love if people wanted to to teach some of my for sale patterns, as long as everyone bought their own copy. More money for me, yay.

But, to play devil’s advocate, I would ask about the designers rights to make money off of teaching a pattern. Don’t many designers supplement their income by teaching their patterns throughout the country? It may seem impractical to an individual LYS to fly out a designer just for one class, but often, designers who do this full time, make their rounds of various states and try to fit several LYSs into a single trip, which makes it all far more affordable.

If the designer isn’t at least contacted to see if this is possible, then the LYS is directly competing with the designer for income off of her pattern.

I’m seriously playing devil’s advocate. I do not teach my patterns often if ever and rarely travel. Designing is purely a side job, but I could see it being an issue for others.